This topic is going on over on TragGang but I thought some more Southern Indiana input would be nice. By most accounts the deer have either moved to Kentucky or there simply are not all that many. Hopefully Andy will see this and have some input. Where I hunt at least there seems to be a real shortage. John Nail knows the area and normally it's got deer stacked on top of each other. This gun season I saw 4 deer total. The same 4 deer, basically every day I hunted. 2 yearlings hanging together, a fat doe and one buck (a nice one though). What's everyone else seeing or hearing ?
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I do not seek the good of others as a sanction for my right to exist, nor do I recognize the good of others as a justification for their seizure of my property or their destruction of my life.- Hank Rearden
Tim, I know where the deer have gone. Clarksville The neighbor across the street from my camp put a trailcam in his back yard. I can see it from my driveway. The first night he got 27 pictures starting at 8:30, well after dark. One picture was something small and you could just see the fur on it's back. Another pict was a wing, probably an owl. The rest were all deer. He had it set to only take a pict once every few minutes so most deer weren't repeats. He left it out all week, the week before gun season and got over 250 pictures. There were ten different bucks. A big 9ptr was the biggest and we think someone upstream got him gun season. Next was a big 10 that had a broken up rack from fighting. A pretty 8ptr that he said will be the one to watch for next year. A real wide, heavy 6ptr that has short tines. and the rest small. I saw him last Sunday resetting it to see what's around this week. I think I know where their crossing me. The only time I like to hunt there is when the weather is bad. That way no ones out walking and rakeing leaves and whatnot. I'm in the county but I wouldn't want to shoot a gun with so many houses around. There's also two different big flocks of turkey in the area. All this about three minutes from Bass Pro. I guess the deer followed the rabbits into town.DEN
CWD and the rest went Nocturnal. Seriously, there has been a lot of buldozer work on Brush creek, and a LOT of hunting pressure. I have roamed that for squirrels, and the deer sign just isn't there anymore. Did find three gut-piles on the West side.
I've only seen two deer, both does, here in Kentucky where I hunt as well. The did some logging there right about the start of the rifle season, but there were fewer deer seen even before that. Everyone I talk with is seeing very few deer. I hunted Ft. Knox gun season the second weekend, and there was only one deer killed in the area I hunt, a nice 9 pointer. Seems like numbers are down, or else they are only mooving at night. Bryan
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I can see the zero's comin out of that turkey's mouth as I walk to the target!
Same type of story for me where I hunt in Switzerland County. Was lucky enough to get two does with my recurve and Drew killed a nice 8pt the 1st week of gun season, but overall, saw way less deer. I think that the damn hurricane that destoryed a lot of the woods and wood lots around here really hurt the normal movement and possibly the EHD the past couple of seasons was worse than thought. Damn depredation tags haven't helped in my are either. Know several farms where they are killing 20 to 40 deer in August. Deer numbers in SE Indiana are nothing like they were in the late 80's and early 90's. Used to go out and see 10-20 deer most evenings, not all in shooting range, but you get the picture. Now if you see 2 or 3, consider it a good outing.
Boys, I went out this afternoon and hunted till dark. Thought I would find at least a few tracks in the snow--nothing. I saw more deer grazing in some guy's yard on the way home than I have seen all season in the woods. Sumptins up. I'm guessing EHD hit the herd much harder than the DNR is saying or knows. If so the bonus antleress numbers per county are Wayyyy high .
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I do not seek the good of others as a sanction for my right to exist, nor do I recognize the good of others as a justification for their seizure of my property or their destruction of my life.- Hank Rearden
Obviously, a Communist Conspiracy. .....I can tell you that the property next to yours is absolutely THICK with hunters. It looks like a pumpkin invasion.
In that case John I would have to say that there are very few deer in there. I can hear just about every shot taken in that area and I am hearing very little. I heard no shots from there yesterday.The harvest numbers reported by the DNR are going to be interesting. They may attribute low numbers to the weather the first weekend but I'm not buying it. The simple truth is the most deer I saw in a given day was the first day during all the rain and wind. They had better take a hard long look at the "bonus antleress" numbers per county next year or it will be a decade before we see the numbers we saw just 5-6 years ago.
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I do not seek the good of others as a sanction for my right to exist, nor do I recognize the good of others as a justification for their seizure of my property or their destruction of my life.- Hank Rearden
Ronald and the wrecking crew all went to Patoka yesterday. They left at 4:00 am in the snow and wind. Therefore I didn't go They open the visitor center every year for m/l opener. The deer group up in there because their safe untill Dec. 6th. Nine of them went and four got deer, all does. I asked Ron how many people were there and he said only twenty. I think he ment he could see twenty other hunters from where he was setting. DEN
Tim, I don't know why, but I decided to check this site today and read your post. I haven't hunted at all this year. I am toward the end of a new home addition and remodel. Even though, when working I have heard repeatedly hunters saying they are not seeing any deer or much fewer than last year. The check stations in Jefferson County reflect this also. All of my check stations are down significantly from last year. This is by all means not a scientific observation, but I think the EHD outbreak from last year is just showing up. We lost a significant number of deer due to EHD in Jefferson County last year and then had a normal harvest on top of that. Jefferson County killed only six (6) bucks less in 2007 than in 2006. The antlerless harvest was similar. Therefore, we should have begun this years season with fewer deer than the past few years. Like I said, this is by no means scientific and mostly my opinion, so take it for what it is worth.
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To know what is right, and not do it, is the worst form of cowardice.
I agree Andy. I get out and roam around a lot, even if it's just stump shooting or walking the dog. Early Last Fall, I saw lots of deer sign around water, and a few carcases (mostly does, though it's hard to tell at that time of year) I saw them in unusual places, which made me think the Epizootie was around. I didn't think it would be this bad, though. It would be interesting to see if the deer/auto accident rate is down.
Out of curiosity I checked the KY wildlife site to see what the kill has been in the state: we had the largest kill for the month of november (our gun season runs for 3 weeks in nov.) for the last 4-5 years. Biologists are happy because they thought that EHD had killed a good number of deer. They now believe that the EHD mortality was not as high as they thought. Go figure.
They hope for some more killing this weekend of ML hunting. I hope I can get to hunt next week. Archery season goes until 1-19-09. They estimate KY herd to be around 1 million deer.
Our pond had dropped down real low (at least until yesterday) and the deer had been visiting it at night. The banks looked like cattle had been watering there. They had it all mudded up. Perfect EHD scenario.I never found any dead deer but on the other hand I did not get over there all that much this Summer and Fall until about late Sept. Plus the critters don't let anything lay long anyway. I sure hope they cut the bonus numbers back some next year. On the other hand the insurance companies should be happy and I doubt fewer tags will be sold , at least for a few years. Hunters tend to be overly optimistic.
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I do not seek the good of others as a sanction for my right to exist, nor do I recognize the good of others as a justification for their seizure of my property or their destruction of my life.- Hank Rearden
We shouldn't have had much EHD this year, or for the next nine. It usually is ten years between major outbreaks in the midwest, at least that is what the biologists tell me. The southern states have a limited amount of EHD every year, but last year they even had a much more severe outbreak. The biologists are not sure why, but seem to think the deer that survive the virus develop an immunity to it and pass this immunity on to their offspring for a few generations. The outbreak last year was worsened by the drought. If we had had an outbreak this year it would have been totally unexpected and troubling. They also tell me it takes three years to recover the lost population from the outbreak. As for the antlerless bag limits, we CO's are asked by the biologists for our opinion every year on this. I can say for myself this year I will suggest cutting the antlerless bag limit in Jefferson County. That doesn't mean they will, just my opinion. On the other hand, don't expect the deer population to ever be what it was in the late 80's - early 90's. We had too many deer and the cost to farmers and insurance companies was way too great and they have very powerful lobbyists too. How many deer is enough to see when you're out hunting? The biologists have to consider more than just us hunter's opinions about the deer herd. We were spoiled during the high population years, as it was automatic to kill a deer in Indiana. As one person so eloquently put it back then, "You have to be an idiot not to kill a deer in Switzerland County!" Of course, Switzerland County had tons of deer back then. Should I also add that the person who said this also didn't kill a deer that year. We hunt for the oppurtunity to kill something. If it becomes a sure thing, where's the allur of the hunt. We then reduce the hunt to nothing different than a trip to the grocery store. It's the hunt that should be what we enjoy, killing an animal should always be considered a bonus. Every out of state hunting trip I take I have the same expectations, to hunt something I can't hunt here and the oppurtunity to kill something. I have never been on a hunt that I didn't enjoy. If I ever do, I'll hang up the bow for good. So let's not forget why we hunt. We enjoy it. We enjoy the people we hunt with and we enjoy the memories we make. Taking an animal is the icing on the cake, and yes I like icing on my cake too. I hope to see some of you this year at the shoots. I never made any last year and plan to not ever let that happen again. Good luck in the late season, and enjoy!!!!!
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To know what is right, and not do it, is the worst form of cowardice.
Yep, I think you are on the mark Andy. Deer hunting really did become sort of "deer killing" the last several years. At least with guns. I guess we have to go back to hunting. I can live with that.. Sort of has a nice ring to it, don't it ?
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I do not seek the good of others as a sanction for my right to exist, nor do I recognize the good of others as a justification for their seizure of my property or their destruction of my life.- Hank Rearden
Very well stated Andy. I agree completely, but it does become somewhat discouraging to put time in and see nothing or just a few strays here and there, especially if time in the field is limited due to other obligations. As for the areas I hunt, I really do think the depredation tags have slammed the local herd...Agree that the farm lobby has a much louder voice than the hunting lobby. Are the numbers of dep. tags issued based on financial loss to the farmers? I remember when they had to show at least $500 worth of crop, fence damage, etc. in order to be issued the tags. I know of 3 larger farmers in Switz and Ohio Counties that have probably had 100+ deer shot per year the last several years...I don't have an answer, but the depredation tag system sucks...Two of the farmers above have shooters pile up deer and then turn around and lease hunting rights to guys from Fla and GA!!! Those guys are wondering why they aren't seeing many deer!!!
Andy, the sad fact is that a lot of buggers around here are poaching them also. I'm a guy that believes in minding my own business, but you can sure expect a call from me, if I see them do it.
Woody, I agree on the depedation permits to a certain point. They are a useful tool when a local herd is decimating a farm. However, that being said, once a farmer shows he has the damage required to obtain the permits he receives ten at a time that are renewable until the end of Sept. Additional permits are issued without question either, once the damage has been established. As you know, we as officers have almost no input on these permits. The biologists have total control over issuance of depredation permits.
John, we appreciate all the help we can get. We as officers always have been and still are outnumbered by the poachers. This year has seen a marked increase in illegal hunting cases made by our officers here in District 9. Talking to other district commanders, they have seen an increase also. So what you say is true. The poachers take many deer every year. Unfortunately, I think they take a larger proportion of large bucks than legal hunters do. "Minding your own business"? I'd say poachers shooting your deer is your business. Remember, you can always call the TIP line anonymously and earn money turning in these slobs that threaten our sport.
Hope to see you both at the January shoots. Maybe we can fling a few arrows together, that is, if you don't mind waiting while I look for my arrow behind the target!
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To know what is right, and not do it, is the worst form of cowardice.
The neighbor across the street from my camp put a trailcam in his back yard. I can see it from my driveway. The first night he got 27 pictures starting at 8:30, well after dark. One picture was something small and you could just see the fur on it's back. Another pict was a wing, probably an owl. The rest were all deer. He had it set to only take a pict once every few minutes so most deer weren't repeats. He left it out all week, the week before gun season and got over 250 pictures. There were ten different bucks. A big 9ptr was the biggest and we think someone upstream got him gun season. Next was a big 10 that had a broken up rack from fighting. A pretty 8ptr that he said will be the one to watch for next year. A real wide, heavy 6ptr that has short tines. and the rest small. I saw him last Sunday resetting it to see what's around this week. I think I know where their crossing me. The only time I like to hunt there is when the weather is bad. That way no ones out walking and rakeing leaves and whatnot. I'm in the county but I wouldn't want to shoot a gun with so many houses around. There's also two different big flocks of turkey in the area. All this about three minutes from Bass Pro. I guess the deer followed the rabbits into town.DEN
They open the visitor center every year for m/l opener. The deer group up in there because their safe untill Dec. 6th. Nine of them went and four got deer, all does. I asked Ron how many people were there and he said only twenty. I think he ment he could see twenty other hunters from where he was setting.
DEN
